FI skills and knowledge

With the abolition of CRFP there still exists a gap in the acreditation of FI pratitioner's skills. There have also been many examples in Courts of poor procedure and knowledge of experts in the field. As a profession we need to seek some means to ensure good skills and knowledge and to show maintenance of same. The basic training-based foundation has never been good enough due to it's short duration. Practitioner's advanced skills and knowledge has depended upon the individual's seeking of further education and self-learning. The problem is that without a good under-pinning knowledge any subsequent experience gained may often be wasted. I would like to canvas opinion on the following: 1. Should the IFE consider running a specific FI examination other than the current members paper? 2. Should the IFE consider setting up a Register of FI practitioners (similar to the current register of Fire Risk Assessors)? 3. Is there anything else the IFE should consider? IAAI CFI is OK but is not considered particularly desirable or required in the UK and does not test knowledge in great detail. The Forensic Science Society FI diploma is a detailed but expensive option. There are a number of Universities offering courses but there are considerable costs. I am still waiting for the IFE website to host a good quality forum for FI and have now suggested websites for the SIGs rather than these blogs. Without such advances I can see no further significant progress for the group. Our profession needs to comunicate much more widely than at present; This is not even happening between fire services so someone must step up to the mark. The IAAI US forum site was very good but sadly fell into disuse. Other forums and bulletin boards have come and gone. What is the problem? Are we all too busy? None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes but trends are being missed, dogma and missinformation is not being corrected and unsafe cases are going before the courts. Errors are being made accross all the practitioner groups; Police, Fire, Forensic Science and Insurance. I have recently been given an example where a court expert stated that a fire could not make the transition from flaming to smouldering. I have seen a case where the likely connection between two apparent separate seats of fire was not discovered until the trial. I know of another where a lack of comunication between authorities led to a arsonist not being interviewed and thus being undiscovered. The same man comitted a murder 6 months later. Let us discuss this openly now. FI has undoubtedly improved many-fold over the years but it is still fragmented and there are still errors being made. Ask within your own organsation what feedback is there? Are cases debriefed? Is there adequate peer review of cases? Do you work alone all of the time? What was your basic training? What is your continuation training? What CPD is undertaken? Do you have time to do a job to the full National Operating Standards? Please give it thought and please participate. Many thanks.

New trend - Hotpoint Dishwasher

Please check your records and data for the following: Dishwasher - Hotpoint FWD60. There is a clear trend with this appliance. Please forward any positive findings to David Wales. David, Will you keep the group posted with any progress and a summary of the issue when you have the time. Thanks.

Fire in Battery Recycling Bin

Every time I see Dave Townsend he nags me to put a blog up here. I’m due to meet him at IFE exam marking week soon so thought I had better do something quick!

Most of my most interesting investigations are still likely to end in court at some point so it’s probably best that I don’t discuss openly at this stage.

However, I recently investigated a fire that I had been ‘expecting’ for some time and am interested to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.

The fire started in a battery recycling collection bin, but thankfully didn’t spread every far. I have been expecting something like this since the WEE Regs (Waste Electrical Equipment) and Battery Directive came in. To be honest my concerns were more related to battery collection points in public buildings like shops and libraries.

The fire started in the wee small hours (see what I did there?) in a TV production company building that was unoccupied overnight. The alarm was raised by a smoke detector and the system worked well enough that a keyholder arrived shortly after the fire crews so they were able to get in and restrict the damage.

The plastic bin where the fire started was about the size of a bucket. It was used as a temporary collection point before transfer to a large wheelie bin in another part of the building. This wheelie bin contained thousands (no I didn’t count them!) of batteries.

The bin where the fire started contained hundreds of batteries (I gave up counting after 100) of various sizes, voltage ratings and technologies: Zinc/Carbon, Zinc Chloride, Alkaline, Lithium, Li-ion, AA, C, D and ‘exotic shapes’. (See photo at top) I found no coin batteries. However the predominant type was the 9 volt PP3 (MN1604) ‘smoke alarm’ battery with two terminals at one end. Clearly, if you chuck lots of these batteries in a bin sooner or later you will get a short circuit.

Apparently the camera crews used to empty their pockets at the end of a day’s filming. Although some were exhausted many of the batteries still delivered in excess of their rated voltage so were not exactly discharged! The boss was quite upset at the cost of recycling perfectly good batteries.

Also of interest was that one Li-ion camera pack battery was hot to the touch over 3 hours after the fire. One part of it measured 71.8 ºC.

Has anyone else come across anything similar?

Dissertation Help

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.
Let me first introduce myself my name is Craig Poulter, I am a firefighter with Fire rescue New South Wales, and have been for 23 years. I am currently studying my masters in fire investigation and am looking for some help from my fellow investigators.

I am seeking information and documentation for my dissertation. At this stage it is to do with forensic and fire investigation evidence and their 'standing' in court, the number of convictions based on these experts and issues surrounding this.

Any information in regards to this subject would be most appreciated. I can be contacted on my e-mail which is;
craig.poult@internode.on.net
Thank you for your help

Craig A Poulter
L.L.B B.Bus JP GIFireE GradDipFireInvestign

Fires Caused by TV Aerials

Its a question more than a statement, for the time being at least, and strictly speaking I should call it "Incidents of Overheating". Anyway, I am currently investigating the circumstances surrounding two incidents at the same flat, within a council block of flats where the electrical lead has been subject to an overload. On both occasions the overload has passed only through the earth wire, within the lead. Faults within the domestic earth supply, the TVs and surge protection devices are all confidently eliminated, as are other non-electrical causes, such as arson, rodent infestation and external heat source. On no occasion have any of the protection devices in the appliance, plugs, leads or domestic circuit operated.

I have relied on assistance from external experts but the conclusion we are headed towards is an earth fault on a digital aerial that is split and boosted (at mains voltage) to more than 12 flats. There are a lot of interested parties in this case that has actually caused no real damage (thanks to an alert occupier and smoke detectors) but the potential for serious consequences is significant and depending on the agreed outcome (if that's possible!) could be far-reaching. I have sent a FINDS message out referring to this incident within the UK FRS community but if anybody else in the world of fire investigation has come across similar scenarios it would be interesting to hear of them.

Best regards, Alan

IAAI - UK

Having just returned from the IAAI-UK AGM and training event in London I would like to express here how much I admire and respect what has been achieved by all involved.
I had joined IAAI many years ago mainly for the forum site which at that time was very useful. Sadly, like many forums, bulletin boards etc. it fell into disuse and even some abuse.
The formation of the UK chapter took much time and devotion by those involved but it has clearly been worth it. The informal and open manner of the personnel and structure of the organisation is refreshing. Anyone and everyone is welcome. There are no cliques. It is not expensive. Through this body the professionalism and value of fire investigation will spread through Europe and the IAAI can be worthy of the title "International".
I would encourage anyone in the field to become involved with IAAI. It is now the most substantial independant organisation in this field.
I know some have issues with the heavy USA bias but to be fair that is where IAAI started and modern USA FI methods are now more closely similar to our own. Active involvement is the only way to influence or change any organisation and IAAI are open for change.
Most of us here on this IFE SIG panel are members and it was good to see half of us at the event. Looking forward to the next.